Episode 3: Finding Your Voice in Design with Avrie Allen
Avrie Allen is pursuing her BFA in Graphic Design at the Eskenazi School of Art, Architecture, and Design. She’s passionate about feminist-oriented and ethical design. She is also the graphic designer at the Center and her work includes the logo of this podcast! Find more of Avrie’s work on her website.
Check out some of Avrie’s favorite design inspirations and resources:
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Madeleine Jurkiewicz: Hello and welcome to the Women of IU podcast, the show that highlights and celebrates the important work women do every day at IU and hopes to inspire future women leaders. This podcast is brought to you by the Center of Excellence for Women & Technology. I'm your host, Madeleine Jurkiewicz.
Today I'm interviewing Avrie Allen. She's the graphic designer at the Center, and she's also a Senior studying Graphic Design at the Eskenazi School of Art, Architecture and Design. Before we dive into the conversation, please rate and review our show on Apple podcasts and follow the Center on Instagram at @iu_cewit. You can find out more about today's guest in the show notes and at womenandtech.indiana.edu.
Good morning, Avrie, how are you?
Avrie Allen: Hi, Madeline. I'm pretty good.
Madeleine: I'm really happy that you're here. Thank you so much for joining.
Avrie: Of course. Yeah, I'm happy to be here with you.
Madeleine: So I've known you for I guess over a year maybe...
Avrie: Yeah.
Madeleine: ...working at the Center together, which has been so fun. And I really admire your work that you do at the Center.
Avrie: Thank you, Madeleine.
Madeleine: I want to know more about your work and graphic design and how you came to the Center.
Avrie: Sure. So, I guess first I'll answer how I came to the Center. So, it's a funny story. Actually. Michelle loves telling this story because she used to volunteer at a store downtown on the square called Global Gifts. I was shopping with my mom right before I moved to Bloomington for school, I think I was here for student orientation. And I overheard Michelle talking to another woman in the store about work studies. And I was like, Oh, I'm a work study student. I have no idea how this works. I need a work study position. So, I just went up to Michelle, introduced myself, and she gave me her contact and was like, “yeah, like I work at the Center of Excellence for Women & Tech.” And at the time, I was like not really into tech at all. So, I don't know if this was like a good fit for me. But I went ahead and did it and I started off as the office assistant. And I was at the Center for a couple years and then left IU for a few years and came back and rejoined the Center. So, I have an interesting journey with the Center. But it's been there my entire time that I've been at IU. And as far as graphic design, I got into that in high school and when I initially came to IU I did not plan on majoring in graphic design.
Madeleine: Oh, really?
Avrie: I was studying American studies before this and then when I returned to IU in 2022, I joined the BFA program in Eskenazi so, yeah.
Madeleine: What do you find the most interesting or significant about graphic design? Why did your journey end up there?
Avrie: Yeah, it’s just something I've always really liked doing. Like I would make Photoshop collages. And like my mom had Illustrator on her computer when I was a kid. So, using the programs at an early age was something that like I just like very naturally got into doing these things without thinking of it as like design. It was just something fun where I could like Photoshop my face onto like a celebrity or something, or like Photoshop, my sister. So that was really fun for me. And then I think just like as an adult, like I just kept returning to it. And it was something I love doing. Like I would do just a lot of design for free or for like organizations around Bloomington during my time away from IU. But yeah, like in particular, I just like how broad and like diverse it can be too. You can really like do anything with design, and you're not really limited to one medium or one topic with design. And I just really enjoy that I can like take anything that I'm interested in outside of design and kind of incorporate that into it.
Madeleine: Along those lines, on that note, a technical question - what do you use to design? What kind of programs do you use? What tools do you like?
Avrie: Yeah, so right now, for most of my design work, I primarily just use like the Adobe Suite. So I do primarily Illustrator, but also use Adobe InDesign, Photoshop less so. And then over the past year and a half, I have also gotten into animation, so learning to use After Effects. I also have gotten into coding, creative coding recently in web design so just like the OpenStudio coding software as well.
Madeleine: What is it like for you being a woman in this industry of Art and Design?
Avrie: You know, my role as a graphic designer has primarily been at the Center. I've done a lot of freelance work as well, and then I do have a smaller role with design at the Kinsey Institute. So thankfully, my experiences so far have been like very positive just because of the environments that I do design in, and that I am interested in doing design in, so that's been really nice. I actually don't know, like broadly, like what like the kind of like gender makeup of the industry is broadly, but at least in my like studio environment at school, it is like dominated by women, which is really nice.
Madeleine: Oh interesting, yeah.
Avrie: And so it is like a field that just feels very inclusive and has like a diverse range of people in it. Just from, you know, kind of the limited experiences that I've had here in Bloomington.
Madeleine: What advice do you have for students, or women early in their careers to succeed in graphic design?
Avrie: I would just say, to really do and find what you're interested in passionate about, and bring your voice and your perspective. I think, like, a school like IU, and like many art schools, and if you're going into, like even a graduate program or applying for jobs, I know people really like to see that designers have a voice. And I think like finding that on as early as you can is really important. And yeah, just try new things. Like I think encouraging or like really fostering a sense of curiosity is really important. And there are just so many opportunities to learn new skills, and incorporate things that you're really passionate about until your work with design, like I mentioned earlier. So yeah, I think it's just nice to have that as like a medium that you can really like show up as yourself with.
Madeleine: I love that. Yeah, I think that's really important to put your own perspective on your work.
Avrie: Yeah and it really helps your portfolio stand out too. Like, we've had designers from across the world come into my classroom, my BFA classroom. And like that was one thing that was like, really overstated to us is like, you know, have interesting work, like have stuff that you're passionate about in your portfolio, like don't worry about it only being like strictly like professional work. Like, I know, employers, and, of course, like graduate programs to love seeing passion projects, like what are you actually interested in as a person too?
Madeleine: Which leads me to my next question, what are you passionate about in this industry? What do you see as your future in this industry?
Avrie: Yeah, so I'm not sure entirely.
Madeleine: That’s okay!
Avrie: But as of right now, like I plan on going to grad school, and I would love to become a teacher of some kind, ideally, like a college professor for graphic design. Like within my own work, I guess, like what I am interested in is a lot of topics around feminism, like I explore that in a pretty broad sense. I think, for the industry, I know we are kind of experiencing that within Eskenazi right now, where we see this kind of shift and transformation of our kind of separate like areas within Eskenazi, or what they call them, rather than departments can because they're coming more and more interdisciplinary. So I know like, as an industry, graphic design is becoming a lot more interdisciplinary. And so-
Madeleine: Can I interrupt you to ask what do you mean by interdisciplinary? For those who don't know.
Avrie: Yeah so how I see that in the industry outside of school, I see a lot of designers incorporating more skills outside of a traditional like, quote, unquote, “graphic design skill set” where maybe, you know, you're working with type, you're working with photos. You know, I've seen studios like make like handmade canned designs where they're like putting marble paint and like, in like a container and like marble painting these cans and like that’s design! Or like people incorporating different mediums, whether that be like drawing or painting or even more like craft-oriented things like woodworking
Madeleine: Oh cool!
Avrie: or just like a lot of different things that you can like tie back and relate to graphic design. Hat Studio is really good example. That's a woman own studio, where you can really see that like interdisciplinary and like handmade, kind of approach to graphic design that is a lot different than like what you traditionally think of as like a purely digital medium. Also, just technology as an industry, of course, has a huge influence of like the trajectory of the industry where, like I've mentioned, like things like coding. Creative coding is also like a huge influence on the field right now as well, where you're seeing a lot of like generative design around like text, or just like images and animations. And so technology definitely changes the field right now a lot.
Madeleine: What challenges do you see in your field and how do you think those will evolve in the future?
Avrie: I do pay a lot of attention and do a lot of reading around like issues within the industry because that's something of interest to me. And I think a lot of people are just concerned about like how freelancing and the “gig economy” really affects designers because you're put in this really precarious situation where it kind of feels like maybe you know, you're expected or wanting to like sell yourself short, because there is such like, you know, opportunities for people to like, outsource and find cheaper ways to do design. You know, platforms like Fiverr...
Madeleine: Yeah
Avrie: ...things like that. And so I think the precariousness of the industry is a huge issue. And then, like anxieties around technologies, replacing human designers, because they're cheaper, and more accessible for people outside of the design industry. From my personal experience of using AI, I did take a class like studio or “AI in the Studio” that was offered and my experiences of just using like text to image generators and messing around and trying to create like designs and them right at the state they're in right now. It's like, “no, that's not going to happen.” But will that happen in the future? I could definitely envision that. And it being like, I don't know, just even more like efficient way of people who are not designers to, like cheaply create things. So there is that and that is real. On the other hand, it's like, I don't know like, what the quality will be like or like I don't believe AI can like truly replace the like the creativity or like ingenuity of human designers, where it's able to make connections and understand content, and really shape the design around that. So I do not anticipate it doing as good of a job as people, definitely not. But as like a cheap way to make like aesthetically pleasing designs? Like absolutely, that could be a reality in your face designers. Yeah.
Madeleine: I totally agree with you. This was something I've been talking about with my other creative friends, because I'm a songwriter and musician. And so that's another big thing is like you're seeing AI creating music. Oh my god, that's so scary. But actually, like you said, I don't think that AI could ever truly replicate the human creative spirit. I don't think so. I hope not. We'll come back to this in a couple of years and see. [Laughs]
On this show, we speak with so many amazing, accomplished and inspiring women. So we want to know who is a woman that inspires you? This could be someone you know personally, or someone whose work you admire. Who inspires you, Avrie?
Avrie: I really like one designer who just graduated from the Yale MFA program. Her name is Kyle Rich and I just think she makes like really interesting and amazing designs. And I love the content of like her design research. She focuses a lot on, like feminist topics and technology, and surveillance. And I really like the work that she's created. She's like, definitely a design inspiration for me. The designer and educator Nicole Killian is also a huge inspiration for me. She's like, very interested in feminist publishing and I think her work is really interesting. And then, her writing is really interesting. And Joanna mole is another designer who uses tech in a really interesting way to create these data visualizations that are scary, but really cool. [Laughs]
Madeleine: Oooh, scary why?
Avrie: They’re about, like climate change
Madeleine: Okay, I figured.
Avrie: so they're like, depressing, yeah. But they're really good!
Madeleine: It’s really important work.
Madeleine: Can I ask how do you find these inspiring designers? Where do you go to find inspiration?
Avrie: I love this website called “Are.na.” It’s Are-dot-na and I think if you're someone who is just trying to find cool topics, it's like a much better alternative than something like Pinterest because it's like more content oriented. But you can like, storyboard your ideas, and create like written and visual inspiration and resources, and it's really cool.
Madeleine: I would love to ask you more specifically, the work that you do with the center. You know, people can look on our on our social media feed and on our website, what of your designs will they see?
Avrie: I do a lot of like, the logo designs, like larger event graphics, I do kind of themed posts on the social media page. I do a lot of like, yeah, like the programs that you'll see that are offered. That is usually my work, and the podcast logo. [Laughs]
Madeleine: Yes! Our amazing podcast logo was designed by Avrie, you guys! And actually, could you tell us a little bit more about your process designing that logo?
Avrie: Yeah, so I kind of just started walking around campus and I was taking pictures, and I was just like, thinking about like any kind of like patterns or like creating more of like a visual identity that's based off of some of the architecture of IU. So it feels like very much like IU without being like overtly like “here's like the IU symbol and it's like crimson and cream.” So I went around and took pictures and I noticed, like really interesting, just like brick patterns, and a lot of like the shapes of the windows. And we do have beautiful architecture on our campus...
Madeleine: Yes we do!
Avrie: ...so it was really easy to find inspiration in that. But yeah, I just walked around and took pictures and went into Illustrator and kind of traced some of those patterns and created what is the kind of pattern on uh, on the podcast logo.
Madeleine: That's so cool. When I, when I saw the logo for the first time, I totally saw the inspiration of the campus architecture and I thought that was a really brilliant place to draw inspiration from.
Avrie: Yeah specifically, the Sample Gates. Like, I think another thing I was thinking about too, is like, something like Sample Gates is this like, very like canonical like IU thing and like the symbol. But like, if you look closer, and it's like, you know, the limestone and it has those patterns. And I thought that was like also like a nice kind of like analogy for like looking closer and paying more attention to like, less visible or noticeable things, which I feel like it's kind of like the ethos of this podcast.
Madeleine: Absolutely, that's definitely the mission. That's awesome. Where else do you draw inspiration from when you're starting a design from scratch?
Avrie: Uh let's see, I guess it depends, because it's like for the Center my in like for client work, my process is very different than like my academic work.
Madeleine: Oh, yeah?
Avrie: But if I'm doing client work, it really depends. I do I try not to like, look online for inspiration too much where I'm just like finding an aesthetic and like trying to mimic that. But I do visual research. I usually try and like, come up with some concepts, and think of imagery related to those concepts, and will kind of start sketching from there. So again, I'm not just relying on like, you know, just having like, a copied and pasted the aesthetic and the thing that I'm making. Where it's like, yeah, in my academic research, I find a lot of inspiration and reading. I love just reading and then like the process for my BFA program in particular is like creating a, like an argument essentially, that you're then like creating a design for. And so I try to like really focus on the content and like, have my designs come from there. Yeah.
Madeleine: Could you tell us a bit more about the program that you're in at IU, the BFA program, and like what you've designed and what you've learned?
Avrie: Sure, the BFA program for Graphic Design is an application based program so you do have to apply to get in. And then once you're accepted, you work with the faculty in your area. And it's a really nice environment like I that is one of my favorite things about being at IU is that I get this like, group of people that I see pretty much every single day and we have our own studio space. And we are all just pals. And it's actually just like so nice because I you can feel really big, and like being able to have your own space and like a consistent group of people who are all like very pleasant to be around is like very rare, I feel like.
Madeleine: Totally.
Avrie: Like that was not my experience, the first time I came to IU. So I'm really grateful to have that be like in the BFA program, you typically do some projects that your professors come up with, but then you also have an opportunity to do your own research. You have the time and space to really, you know, create whatever you're interested in, or you will really want to learn more about, it's very open ended. And I think it's a great program. And I really love my professors in that program too.
Madeleine: Oh, that's great to hear. Yeah. Would you recommend the program to other students?
Avrie: Yes, I would say if you are questioning whether or not you should do it, 100% apply and go through the process. And even if you don't get in, which a lot of times people have to apply multiple times, like just do it! It is so worth it. It's like such a positive experience and environment. And yeah!
Madeleine: Avrie, how have you been able to grow your tech skills more at the Center?
Avrie: I think as I've become more like ingrained in this industry and like gotten more experience with design, I am like leaning more and more into tech-related design and like the like really bolstering my tech skills and like learning a lot more with you know, coding or different Adobe programs like After Effects and these things that I think I would traditionally not see myself doing. And I know like when I first came to IU and joined the Center, I think I even told Michelle like when we were talking about the job was like, “I'm not like in tech at all, like my field, like I do graphic design. I'm not a tech person.” And she was like, “Yes, you are like you use these programs.” And so like, that was like a really big, like, mindset shift for me and being like, “oh, yeah, like I actually do, like, use the software's that can feel kind of like opaque or hard to use at times.”
I've been wanting to learn, like just basic HTML and CSS and JavaScript coding for a while now. And my first delve into HTML was actually through the Center when I was the office assistant. They had me just doing very basic, like email coding and that was like, the first time I ever got into coding. I had friends in high school who were women who did coding, but like, I just never saw myself doing that. I was like, “this is way too hard.” Having that small experience at the Center showed me I was like, “oh, yeah, like, I can do this, I can totally understand this.” And so I've been doing some Codecademy courses. And I was really excited about coding a portfolio site for myself. I created just like a very, you know, kind of basic HTML and CSS website, but I'm really excited about it. And that's something else that I want to explore more in this next semester, in kind of tying in these like concepts of like handmade websites and coding with ethical media and like feminist-oriented media, and just kind of like DIY media. So I'm really excited about learning this new skill set, because I feel like it's like really allowed me to explore some other interesting topics, and expand on projects that I've done in the past.
Madeleine: Now, what is your website called? How can people find you and your work?
Avrie: It's Avery-dot-World, Avrie.world
Madeleine: That's so cute! Avrie.world!
Avrie: So it’s my world!
Madeleine: Everybody, go check out Avrie’s world at Avery.world. Avrie, thank you so much for joining me today. This was such a fun and inspiring conversation.
Avrie: Yeah, thank you Madeleine. I always love talking to you, so this was great.
Madeleine: Thanks for listening to the Women of IU podcast. Before we go, please leave us a review on Apple Podcasts and follow the Center on Instagram @iu_cewit. This podcast was recorded by the Center for Language Technology here at IU. So, we want to give them a big thank you for their wonderful work and support. Then stay tuned for the next episode of the Women of IU podcast!