Episode 2: Managing the Message with Dr. Lisa Lenoir

Lisa D. Lenoir is a critical/cultural media sociologist who studies race, gender, and class. She holds a Ph.D. in media sociology from the University of Missouri-Columbia; an M.S. in International Public Service from DePaul University; and a B.A. in Journalism, with a minor in Graphic Design from Indiana University Bloomington. For 17 years she worked as a professional journalist covering and editing everything from fire to fashion at the Marietta Times (Marietta, Ohio); The Peoria Journal Star; The Indianapolis Star; and the Chicago Sun-Times. She was an instructor at Columbia College Chicago for 14 years and an assistant professor at Stephens College in Missouri teaching fashion communication for seven years. She was a Lillian Kopenhaver Center Fellow in 2017 and won numerous awards as a journalist. Her research uses a critical and cultural paradigm to examine contemporary cultural phenomena in media discourses. Areas of interest include journalism studies; activism; and identity and consumer culture. Her dissertation explored “woke culture” discourses in Essence; O, The Oprah Magazine; and Teen Vogue. At IU she teaches courses in the Media School’s new Fashion Media program.

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Madeleine Jurkiewicz: Hello and welcome to the Women of IU podcast, the show that highlights and celebrates the important work women do every day at IU and hopes to inspire future women leaders. This podcast is brought to you by the Center of Excellence for Women & Technology. I'm your host, Madeleine Jurkiewicz.

This week, October 23rd through 27th is National Media Literacy Week. Here at IU we are recognizing Media Literacy Week across campuses through different workshops, talks, and initiatives that bring attention to the importance of media literacy in many different fields and areas of study. Media Literacy empowers people to make informed decisions and be active citizens, but has become challenging due to the quick spread of misinformation on social media and other media channels. So this week, the Center of Excellence for Women & Technology is excited to contribute to Media Literacy Week by bringing you a brand-new episode with IU’S own Dr. Lisa Lenoir! Dr. Lenoir is an assistant professor here at IU’s Media School and is a critical cultural media sociologist who studies race, gender and class. To find out more about the Center's involvement and Media Literacy Week, visit our website at womenandtech.indiana.edu or visit medialiteracyweek.us to find out more about the national initiative. Now let's check out this interview with Dr. Lisa Lenoir!

I'm super excited for our guest today. Her name is Professor Lisa Lenoir. Professor Lenoir was a journalist for 17 years and got her PhD at University of Missouri Columbia. She was a Lillian Kopenhaver Center Fellow in 2017 and she's won numerous awards as a journalist. And luckily for us, she teaches courses in the Media School’s new Fashion Media program. Welcome Professor Lenoir!

Dr. Lisa Lenoir: Oh, it's nice to see you, Madeleine.

Madeleine: Thank you so much for being here.

Dr. Lenoir: Absolutely.

Madeleine: Tell us a little bit about yourself and the work that you're currently doing here at IU.

Dr. Lenoir: Well, as you mentioned, I have been a journalist for 17 years. And then as the market started to change, I wanted to pivot - and this is something that I think is really important is as markets change and career opportunities change, are you able to pivot? And so while I was working in Chicago, I was teaching at Columbia College Chicago as an adjunct instructor. And one of the highlights of that program is that they always wanted individuals that were in the industry so that they could relay the most up to date information for students.

And so while I was doing that, I went there first to teach a fashion journalism course. And it was something that was fairly new. It started off as a workshop, and then it evolved into like a three credit course. And so it was during that time I was teaching, and then also is reporting. And then as the industry started to change, I wanted to see some different opportunities. And I was really interested in nonprofits. So I worked for a nonprofit for a little while, and then started to focus primarily on higher ed. I was always interested in higher ed, it was something that really was intriguing to me. In fact, when I was working at one of my newspapers, I wanted to be the Higher Education reporter. And while I did not get that I was able to get the Fashion Reporter beat instead. So I basically have been able to have some of the best of both worlds by actually being involved in higher ed as well as in covering fashion and also teaching fashion communication.

Madeleine: Very fun. I mean, I consider fashion to be a really fun industry. I don't know a ton about it, except for, you know, magazines and social media and whatnot. That's really cool that you have had the opportunity to really understand the industry on a deeper level.

Dr. Lenoir: Right, and that's one of the things that has evolved about fashion communication, or just fashion media. It is not as I would have told my students - and this has become one of my phrases - it's not about having a fluffy brain. It's not, you know, where it's just like, “Oh, I like clothes. And I want to talk about the latest trends.”

Madeleine: Deeper than that, surely.

Dr. Lenoir: It's much deeper than that. And we see this a lot, particularly in Europe and in other parts of the world as well, is how fashion is really about identity. It can be a marker of class, it can also it's a huge economic industry, it impacts countries all over the world. You can look at all of your garments that you're wearing today, and I'm sure that is probably a combination of different countries that have actually produced or manufactured the garment. But then you also have to know like, where did the thread come from? Where did the buttons come from? All those different aspects make up a garment. Which is something that we really tried to help students, particularly those that are going to be in media to actually understand what the industry is, understand the cultural implications of it, and then be able to articulate that to audiences.

Madeleine: What does your research look like right now? What are you looking at?

Dr. Lenoir: So I have two tracks of research that I'm exploring. The one track is more the fashion media. So looking at blogs, fashion blogs, particularly on a global scale, and understanding how these blogs are actually being produced, who's producing them, and then how they're also using language in order to participate in the global discourse. So I'm really interested, I took an amazing course in my Master's program called Global Englishes. And I'm really interested in how different Englishes are being used in order for either countries like the United States, or also countries that have been colonized, or what we call countries that have not been colonized that want to participate in the market, and how they are using language in order to a) number one: participate in the discourse, but then also be able to articulate their own identities through language.

Madeleine: Now I read that you have studied “woke culture,” is that correct?

Dr. Lenoir: Correct.

Madeleine: So I'm curious to know more about those studies. Could you define the term “woke,” “woke culture,” and how it applies to media and culture? And also, what is the most interesting thing you've discovered in your research? I feel like that can be kind of an obscure subject for some people, so I would love for you, and expert, to give us the details.

Dr. Lenoir: So know that the term is evolving...

Madeleine: Okay.

Dr. Lenoir: ...because it is so much a part of our discourse now. I look at woke culture as how the intersection of social consciousness and awareness coincide with race, and how that appears within different media channels. And so it's an interesting dynamic to see how social consciousness and awareness has been extracted, and moved further away from the origin of where this word comes out of, which is African American English. So it's become complicated in terms of like, once race is engaged with it, as to how certain publications actually, do they discuss race, or do they not discuss race? And so “woke” has evolved into just being about social consciousness and awareness and social justice and, you know, understanding social justice issues. So now we've heard like, “woke capitalism,” we've heard “woke advertising.” But we've heard, particularly with woke advertising, it's been moved much more into the feminist discourse, right? And so my role and what I want to do is to not police it and say that “this is the actual definition, and it needs to be this,” is to actually look at how it is being used in these different spaces. And also making sure that there is some acknowledgement that it does come out of a historically marginalized group, of a language by which they've used quite, you know, some amazing scholars have discussed African American English. I'm not a linguist, so I'm looking at it much more from the media studies side. Is there's something special about that word that is being lost? And so what I'm looking at is to really see, why did it become so problematic? Why has it been used as a pejorative? How has it been commodified? How has it been meme-ified? How has it been watered down? You know, initially, like in through my dissertation, I focused on just kind of getting a framework of what woke culture is. And so as I move forward this academic year is to really explicate it and look at it from many different angles and to help people to understand what I'm seeing, what my perspectives are about that, as well as being rooted in the literature.

Madeleine: I would love to talk to you more about your career journey, how you got to this point. And also like in the hopes of inspiring listeners who maybe want to get where you are someday. So could you tell us, how did you get your start in this field of study? In journalism and then also in fashion and media?

Dr. Lenoir: I come from a family that had worked primarily in the medical industry. I had my eyes set on that, a professional career in terms of like medicine. And then I had a really amazing English Composition teacher. And so when I arrived at IU, I would hold office hours on the floor, and I would help all my friends on the floor with their papers. Like I didn't write them, but I would coach them, right. I was like their tutor. And so there was one of my floormates - I lived in Forest. She was really interesting, because - and this is probably where I started being interested in language as well - because she was from the East Coast, and she would discuss or critique how we said certain words here in the Midwest. So she would say “hall” with a long A, and I say, “well, we say hall.” And then she would say, you know, like, I don't know if you've heard like, different words for like a “sack” and a “bag.” Right? All these different things. So she was, I was working with her, so we had a nice little repartee going. And she said, “I'm in the journalism program.” And I said, “IU as a journalism program?” she said, “Yeah!” And she said, “If anyone should be in journalism, you should be in it.” And I was like, “Oh, okay.”

So I started to do some homework and found the Ernie Pyle Hall and decided to go and declare it as my major. That was my freshman year. And then by my sophomore year, I was well on my way working at the Indiana Daily Student and, and enrolled in the classes. And so that's how I evolved into actually being in journalism. I had multiple internships throughout Indiana and then had my first job, which was in Marietta, Ohio, which was the Gannett Paper.

One of the things I do want to express, I mean, it was not something that I expected to do. I was always really strong in English and in the humanities, and also had opportunities at summer camps where I worked on like newsletters, family newsletters. I was always writing but I did not know that that could actually be a career at the time. And media was primarily print and television. And I used to, my parents are avid, avid readers of newspapers. My grandmother was an avid reader. We also used to get the Black newspaper, which is the Indianapolis Recorder. So I would, you know, be her interpreter in terms of like she, I would read everything in there. And then she would ask about certain people in the newspapers “Is Miss So-and-So in there?" “Oh yeah she’s in there.” So I was exposed to print at a very young age, and that had an impact. So it all just came together when you know, just working with my classmates and then evolving into actual career.

Madeleine: Very cool. Yeah, it sounds like something that maybe had been in your soul and like in your heart for a while, but you didn't realize it until that moment presented itself and you found out “oh, this really is my passion.”

Dr. Lenoir: Exactly.

Madeleine: What advice do you have for students or women early in their careers to succeed, maybe just starting out here at IU? Or maybe about to graduate and go on to have their own journalism career?

Dr. Lenoir: That is another great question. Because I would say that when I graduated, I had two opportunities. One: I was interested... I have a minor in graphic design.

Madeleine: Oh, cool.

Dr. Lenoir: So I love art, and wasn't exactly sure how it would integrate into my journalism career. But at the time when I was here at IU, Gannett was really pushing the whole graphic design and telling stories with infographics, data visualization. This was like at the very beginning of that. And it was really an interesting time in terms of like, what jobs were actually available. And so I panicked. I always tell my students this story, I panicked! And I could either go to Florence to study art, because this graduate-

Madeleine: Italy?

Dr. Lenoir: Yes, IU had like this graduate program where you could go to Florence. And then it was like internship or a job. And I had an internship and they wanted me to be an intern again, and I didn't. I wanted to start working. And so I had this moment and my family, my parents, very supportive. And we were just talking about this recently is like “We did not put any pressure on you to go out and get a job.” I graduated in December, so that was like a really interesting time as well. And so I reached out to a recruiter that worked for Gannett and she said “I have your resume right on my desk and I'll send you a couple of options.” And so she sent me this small newspaper in little Marietta, Ohio, which is in the southeastern part of Ohio, near the Ohio, Muskingum rivers. And I got an interview pretty quickly. And my father was like, “Well, you know, this, this is your first job. You don't have to stay there. But just try it and then if it doesn't work out, you can come back.” And so I drove that long drive all the way to the small town, and worked at the small newspaper.

And one of the things I really had to think about was like, who was in the newsroom? Who could I like, connect with? And there was another African American woman there. And I said, “Okay, if she's here in this small town, then I'm going to come to this small town.” And we're still friends today. She's now in the DC area.

Madeleine: Oh my gosh, that’s awesome.

Dr. Lenoir: Right?

Madeleine: ...to find somebody that you can connect with to make you feel more comfortable in a workspace, especially when you're just starting out. Another kind of message that I feel like I'm hearing from you is like what your dad said about it doesn't have to be forever, you can just try this job. And that's something that I like, as a young professional feel like I get caught up in sometimes is, “this next job is going to be my career!” you know? And that's not always how it works. The journey can be long and winding.

Dr. Lenoir: It, most definitely. And to know how to pivot, Madeleine, is so important. And it's also really good to have that support system. I know not everybody may have the same support systems, but there are people, I do believe that will be led to you to help guide you through these different experiences.

Madeleine: Can I ask you what other mentors have you encountered in your career journey?

Dr. Lenoir: There have been so many amazing women, that and men, right that have just actually guided me. So when I moved to my second newspaper, which was in Peoria, Illinois, the owner of the Black newspaper, she called me up one day, Miss Elise Allen. And she said, “We're counting on you.” And I thought, “Wow, that's a lot of pressure.” But what I did not realize was that she and other African Americans in the community had been really advocating to make sure that there was much more diversity on the newspaper and different voices, right, not just one voice, but different voices that could actually expand the coverage. And that was something that I look back on, in fact, in my dissertation, I do acknowledge her because it was this, these advocates of the Black press that really tried to make sure that the more mainstream press was engaging with the community just as much as they were. That it was not a parallel discourse, that they were intertwining. And that everyone's in the same community have some of the same worries and concerns and like why can't we cover that on a more consistent and fair basis? Which is, there's a lot of historians as well as other scholars who have written extensively about, like just the ways in which the Black press was able to give voice to those that did not have a voice within these mainstream publications. When you're in media, and there's not as much representation, there is this extra opportunity for those that do not have access to these spaces to share, share their knowledge that you can impart it on others as well.

Madeleine: Absolutely. I do want to say that media literacy is a huge goal and mission of our Center. And so as an expert, I want to ask you, what does media literacy mean to you? And, you know, how can people become more media literate?

Dr. Lenoir: One of the things that has been happening, and I'm sure, I'm not going to mention any specific stories, but there have been some that have been quiet in the news lately, it's been very interesting to see how different channels are managing the message, right? Where it used to be, if there was an incident, it would get reported to the authorities, and then the authorities would send it back out. And then we'd ask other authorities and interview them for the story.

Now you have these different channels and different individual citizens, right, that have these channels, and then they're bringing in all this different messaging. And so how is it that people can not go on rumors, but actually get the facts because they don't necessarily- they should have access to a police report or a fire report or whatever, because of just open records laws. But this is a new dynamic in terms of how people are unpacking information and what is true and what is not true. Before we re... what is it, re-X'ed, or whatever? I don’t know what it is now!

Madeleine: Formerly re-Tweet?

Dr. Lenoir: Just like when, when Prince, or the artist formerly known as Prince, so...

Madeleine: Yes exactly!

Dr. Lenoir: ...the site formerly known as Twitter. [laughs] So we all are going to have to pause, right? Because there's so much information that's coming in, and these algorithms are having a huge impact on what's being pushed to us and what's not being pushed to us. I do believe there needs to probably be some new rules of engagement, and new ideas on how we vet electronic communication.

Madeleine: So do you think that that is up to the system or up to the individual or both? I know, that's kind of a big question, a little existential.

Dr. Lenoir: I think that's a great question. And this is where “woke” could come in. Because it's like, are you... I see, being aware and socially conscious is about like morals and ethics. And, but then we have this this force, which is the market. The market has a huge impact on giving us the opportunity to sit with something and to work through it because of these market forces, right? If you have to work, you don't have always the time to sit and think about the information that you are engaged with.

It also extends to our education system, what's being taught at all different levels, what are family structures able to impart? There's many factors that go into it. I don't even know they still have current events in school. When I was growing up we used to have current events. So when we asked some of our students in terms of like, what channels are they getting their information from? They're getting them from social media. At my last institution, I had my students go in, when they went home for the break. I said, “Bring me back your hometown newspaper.” A lot of them had never touched the newspaper.

Madeleine: Oh, yeah, I can believe that.

Dr. Lenoir: And then they touched it, and they said, “You know, I've never touched the newspaper.” So that also gets into some, I would say, cautioning behaviors, right? Because if you don't know what's going on in your community, then you cannot be a citizen.

Madeleine: Yes.

Dr. Lenoir: And if you're relying on these, this electronic solely - I think you have to triangulate, just like as we do as researchers, right? Is really looking at many different data sources in order for you to understand what is it that I’m experiencing, how can I check it, and then how can I understand whether or not this information is reliable?

Madeleine: What do you see for the future of the journalism and media industry? Do you think that we will continue to be disjointed in that way?

Dr. Lenoir: Well, the reason why I'm at IU, and the reason why I've been teaching for as long as I have is I'm counting on you all! To give, to impart the knowledge to really come up with some solutions.

Madeleine: Absolutely. Yeah.

Dr. Lenoir: Right? I think that we need to understand that there is a model and the model of making money for publication has been advertising and it has become fractured. So there's other models that have come into play like nonprofit models or co-ops or just different funding models. But then you have to think about the philanthropists, where they get their money from how they build their money in order to decide which outlets they're going to support. If you're going to use citizen journalist, who's going to provide the training? So there's some really strong groups that are doing this work. But for every one of those there is the venture capitalist that is buying up multiple publications, because that's a model. It's not always the family newspaper. And when the internet first started having content, they made it free. So to pay for it, like I was looking for an article, and then all of a sudden, I see the like, “what I gotta pay for it?” Now mind you, I believe in, you know, supporting local media.

Madeleine: Of course, but still when you're used to it being free and accessible, suddenly you're like, “Oh, is it worth my $2? Or whatever?”

Dr. Lenoir: Oh, if you want to do this, you need to subscribe. Just think I'm fully aware, because I've been media just think about the average person who's trying to make ends meet. And they're like, “Well, what is the value of me paying for a subscription to a publication?” But if it citizens aren't engaged, and there's not enough staff, right, that's the other thing, enough staff in order to do the stories and access, right? Because you have to have access. That's something that's really important.

So one of the things when I said in my first job, when I covered police, the police chief used to read all of the reports, which is illegal. And so one day, I did ask him, and I had just come back from being here in Indiana, and I was all empowered, you know. I went in there and I said, “When are you going to let me look at this, instead of you having to constantly read it?” And he made this, he sexual harassed me and made this derogatory comment. And I was shocked. I mean, so I was like, in my early 20s. And so this was something I was like, “I'm not used. I don't know, I don't even know how to respond to this!” So fortunately, I went back to the newsroom, and I told my editors, I said, “this is what he said to me.” And they said, “That's it, we're gonna nail them, we're gonna nail into the wall.” And so they did, like, bring a suit from big, the big corporate company, he was livid. And then he made it very difficult for us to get information. So I was I was extremely fortunate that my supervisors backed me up. But there was a price to pay in terms of the access to information for the citizens of that community. And that is, what this power that is very much a part of my research. Is like, how are these power dynamics really having an impact on discourses and what's actually being disseminated to citizens and what's not?

Madeleine: Now we're getting close on time. I want to ask you, do you have any other things that you'd like to discuss? I see you have some notes.

Dr. Lenoir: You did ask me a question about inspiring women. And one of the things I did mention individuals, but this was something that I've really become so intrigued by and this has a lot to do with just some of my research, is that I have been working on my genealogical tree. And so we, it's sometimes it's really hard in African American families to go back. It's not easy at all. So one day, I was online, on a site and I just started bread crumbing and I went all the way back to my fourth great grandparent. And I just call her Grandma Violet. And she was, I brought it here - she was estimated to be born in 1813 and passed away in about 1857. And I thought there was no, there probably was never in either her or even my view to be in this space right? And so I do this work to honor them, right? their voices and to honor other women's voices in media. And so that, she's kind of my inspiration as of late of on the tree though, but she's the furthest that I've been able to go back in terms of like, what was her life? And that's so that was like about 200 years ago.

Madeleine: Wow,

Dr. Lenoir: Right?

Madeleine: Yeah, life was so different then.

Dr. Lenoir: So different!

Madeleine: That’s really beautiful, thank you for sharing that...

Dr. Lenoir: You’re welcome.

Madeleine: ...and I think that will be very inspiring to our listeners, I’m sure. We are out of time, but it was so lovely to have you here, Dr. Lenoir. Thank you so much for being here!

Dr. Lenoir: You’re welcome. Thank you so much, great questions.

Madeleine: Thanks for listening to the Women of IU podcast. Before we go, please leave us a review on Apple Podcasts and follow the Center on Instagram @iu_cewit. This podcast was recorded by the Center for Language Technology here at IU. So, we want to give them a big thank you for their wonderful work and support. Please stay tuned for the next episode of the Women of IU podcast!